PC minutes 1-13-14
New Haven Plan Commission Meeting Minutes
Monday January 13, 2014
In attendance were Chair Joslin, Krause, Byers, Coon and VanSchoyck for Plan Commission. Also Rand Atkinson and Mike Julson.
Joslin called the meeting to order at 6:30 pm. Pledge of Allegiance was recited, Joslin stated that the meeting had been posted properly. Minutes from last meeting, 12-9-13, were read. Rand Atkinson brought up some corrections to the minutes from the last meeting – (a) to add the word maximum, so it would read “they would be raised until they got up to a maximum of 11 inches”, (b) to add the word maximum, so it would read “the flow to the silo only required a maximum of 30 gallons per minute”, (c) delete the words for other tanks and, so it would read “and the rest of the capacity was used for the waste clarifier”, (d) to correct misspelling of Bob Demmerts name from Demming in two spots. Motion by Krause to approve the corrected minutes, second by Coon, M/C.
Request by Rand Atkinson for a conditional use permit from the Adams County Zoning Ordinance to conduct a fish hatchery operation at 4002 3rd Avenue, to include the hatching and rearing of fish and utilizing fish waste in the growing of plants, and the sale of both.
Request by Rand Atkinson to bore under a Town road for a 4 inch diameter plastic discharge pipe, which would discharge up to 70 gallons per minute into Big Spring Creek from the aquaculture operation, and also to temporarily discharge water from the facility through a 20” culvert in the NW Corner of the property under Golden Avenue until the contractor can complete the boring after the ground thaws.
(Old business, previously tabled) Request by Rand Atkinson for a special exception permit from the Adams County Shoreland Protection Ordinance to conduct a fish hatchery operation at 4002 3rd Avenue, to include the hatching and rearing of fish and utilizing fish waste in the growing of plants, and the sale of both.
Chair Joslin explained there were three separate items to take action on. The conditional use permit was to allow livestock on a residential parcel. The Zoning Ordinance list livestock as a conditional use for R-1 parcels but also lists livestock as a prohibited use for R-1 parcels less than 2 acres.
Joslin asked Atkinson to say anything he wanted first, without interruption, then questions would be asked.
Atkinson said his previous information had not really changed, other than the location of his waste clarifier to satisfy the setback requirements. Atkinson passed out a printed page titled “To: Adams County Officials, Planning and Zoning Dept, and Adams County residents” and headed “Livestock vs fish and regulation of fish farming”. In summary, the piece argued against classifying fish as livestock because fish did not contribute as much waste as other livestock.
Joslin began questioning, asked what exactly would be in the discharge water, and how would the discharge be monitored? How much of each substance was ok or not ok? And who would do the testing? Atkinson said that a study that was done in the past had shown that 10,000 lbs of fish would generate 5.5 lbs of waste per day. He said that he would do his own monitoring because Adams County did not have the staff for it. Atkinson also said that he was not required to even have a waste clarifier/settlement tank, and he could just release all his waste into the creek if he wanted to.
Joslin stated that he spoke to Reesa Evans at Adams County Conservation today, and she said that monitoring was not effective unless done by an independent lab at the correct locations, at established intervals, and that parameters had to be set up also.
Joslin asked why Atkinson had changed his well capacity to avoid the DNR oversite that the Town of New Haven wanted? Atkinson said that he made the changes based on what he needed for his operation and that he made a mistake on his original paperwork. Joslin said that New Haven would have benefited by getting DNR monitoring of his well output, a DNR environmental review of the well's effect on the local water table, and a DNR “courtesy review” of his operation. Atkinson said the courtesy review he turned down only pertained to his waste clarifier, not the entire system. Joslin said this all falls under the old saying, trust but verify.
VanSchoyck asked whether Atkinson realized that his own study he did on Lake Mason years ago came to the conclusion that the main problem with the lake was excessive nutrients? And why would he now want to add to thje nutrients going into Lake Mason? Atkinson said that he was not adding to the nutrients, that he was actually adding something good to the lake because he was adding oxygen rich water. Atkinson said the DNR did not monitor the waste discharge for fish farms less than 20,000 lbs of fish per year because there really was non below those levels. Joslin said that common sense would lead one to believe that there would be half the waste at 10,000 lbs as there would be at 20,000 lbs, but not zero waste.
VanSchoyck said that his fish tank at The Cove restaurant was about half the size of Atkinson's waste clarifier, and based on how much it takes to keep it clean and how much waste his few fish generate, and considering the water would be flowing through at 65 gallons per minute, he didn't see how the clarifier could even begin to catch all the waste. Atkinson said that there were baffles to catch the waste and that the clarifier was designed using the latest design and best practices available.
Byers said he had a single goldfish at home that generated a spoonful of waste each week and how would that translate to 10,000 lbs of fish? Atkinson said that cold water trout make less waste per lb than warm water fish.
Byers asked whether the fish farm could even function without establishing a series of other fish farms to sell fingerlings to? Atkinson said yes, he could sell the fish to anybody, it didn't have to be to other local fish farms. His operation is meant to be a prototype for other fish farms however, and he hopes to be able to supply 5 or 6 other fish farms with fingerlings, although they don't necessarily have to be in the immediate area. Joslin said that approving this conditional use request might not only establish a precedent for conducting livestock operations on small lots, but also for establishing a series of fish farms, potentially in the immediate area, all using large amounts of groundwater and all discharging waste into Lake Mason.
Krause asked why 65 gallons per minute was needed for his operation, as opposed to 30 gallons per minute for the fish farms he would be supplying fingerlings to, because he had been told by a fish farm manager out west that much lower levels of water were required if the water was oxygenated properly? Atkinson said he needed more water because he was both hatching eggs and raising fish to adult size. The fish farms that bought fingerlings from him did not need to hatch eggs and could function on only 30 gallons per minute.
VanSchoyck asked how close the discharge pipe came to Pat Coons house and whether riff-raff was needed where the water shot out of the pipe? Pat Coon said it was 250 feet or so from the house. Atkinson said there was already riff-raff where the pipe would end.
VanSchoyck asked whether the fish farm would be insured for damage to the road or to Lake Mason? Atkinson said he would have to have insurance. Mike Julson said the Town would be able to recover any damages to the road.
Joslin said Atkinson chose this location because of abundant, cold groundwater, but the people in this area are also very touchy about extracting their groundwater and polluting their surface water. The fish farm would be taking water from a groundwater protection zone at near high capacity well levels, 7 days a week, and discharging waste into an impaired lake 7 days a week, and proposes to add more locations.
Joslin stated that he thought it best for a roll call vote on each of the three items, with a motion and second for each item, one way or the other. Byers made a motion to leave the boring under Town road up to the Town Board. Joslin explained that it was already up to the Town Board and we were only advising them. Beyers withdrew his motion.
Joslin made a motion to not recommend approval of the special exception permit request that was tabled last month, second by Byers. Hand vote, Joslin, Krause, Byers, VanSchoyck yes, Coon no. Motion passed 4-1.
Motion by Joslin to not recommend approval the conditional use permit, second by Krause. Hand vote, Joslin, Krause, Byers, VanSchoyck yes, Coon no. Motion carried 4-1.
Motion by Krause to not recommend approval to bore under a Town road, second by VanSchoyck. Hand vote, Joslin, Krause, Beyers, VanSchoyck yes, Coon no. Motion carried 4-1.
Discussion on disposal of fly ash in the area. Krause stated that some of it was toxic and some was ok for various uses. Also that there was an involved procedure to get a landfill permit. Van Schoyck said there was a difference between fly ash and bottom ash. It was agreed to keep our ears open on this topic and try to learn more about it, to determine if any local regulation or action was a good idea.
Motion by Byers to adjorn, second by Van Schoyck, M/C.
Monday January 13, 2014
In attendance were Chair Joslin, Krause, Byers, Coon and VanSchoyck for Plan Commission. Also Rand Atkinson and Mike Julson.
Joslin called the meeting to order at 6:30 pm. Pledge of Allegiance was recited, Joslin stated that the meeting had been posted properly. Minutes from last meeting, 12-9-13, were read. Rand Atkinson brought up some corrections to the minutes from the last meeting – (a) to add the word maximum, so it would read “they would be raised until they got up to a maximum of 11 inches”, (b) to add the word maximum, so it would read “the flow to the silo only required a maximum of 30 gallons per minute”, (c) delete the words for other tanks and, so it would read “and the rest of the capacity was used for the waste clarifier”, (d) to correct misspelling of Bob Demmerts name from Demming in two spots. Motion by Krause to approve the corrected minutes, second by Coon, M/C.
Request by Rand Atkinson for a conditional use permit from the Adams County Zoning Ordinance to conduct a fish hatchery operation at 4002 3rd Avenue, to include the hatching and rearing of fish and utilizing fish waste in the growing of plants, and the sale of both.
Request by Rand Atkinson to bore under a Town road for a 4 inch diameter plastic discharge pipe, which would discharge up to 70 gallons per minute into Big Spring Creek from the aquaculture operation, and also to temporarily discharge water from the facility through a 20” culvert in the NW Corner of the property under Golden Avenue until the contractor can complete the boring after the ground thaws.
(Old business, previously tabled) Request by Rand Atkinson for a special exception permit from the Adams County Shoreland Protection Ordinance to conduct a fish hatchery operation at 4002 3rd Avenue, to include the hatching and rearing of fish and utilizing fish waste in the growing of plants, and the sale of both.
Chair Joslin explained there were three separate items to take action on. The conditional use permit was to allow livestock on a residential parcel. The Zoning Ordinance list livestock as a conditional use for R-1 parcels but also lists livestock as a prohibited use for R-1 parcels less than 2 acres.
Joslin asked Atkinson to say anything he wanted first, without interruption, then questions would be asked.
Atkinson said his previous information had not really changed, other than the location of his waste clarifier to satisfy the setback requirements. Atkinson passed out a printed page titled “To: Adams County Officials, Planning and Zoning Dept, and Adams County residents” and headed “Livestock vs fish and regulation of fish farming”. In summary, the piece argued against classifying fish as livestock because fish did not contribute as much waste as other livestock.
Joslin began questioning, asked what exactly would be in the discharge water, and how would the discharge be monitored? How much of each substance was ok or not ok? And who would do the testing? Atkinson said that a study that was done in the past had shown that 10,000 lbs of fish would generate 5.5 lbs of waste per day. He said that he would do his own monitoring because Adams County did not have the staff for it. Atkinson also said that he was not required to even have a waste clarifier/settlement tank, and he could just release all his waste into the creek if he wanted to.
Joslin stated that he spoke to Reesa Evans at Adams County Conservation today, and she said that monitoring was not effective unless done by an independent lab at the correct locations, at established intervals, and that parameters had to be set up also.
Joslin asked why Atkinson had changed his well capacity to avoid the DNR oversite that the Town of New Haven wanted? Atkinson said that he made the changes based on what he needed for his operation and that he made a mistake on his original paperwork. Joslin said that New Haven would have benefited by getting DNR monitoring of his well output, a DNR environmental review of the well's effect on the local water table, and a DNR “courtesy review” of his operation. Atkinson said the courtesy review he turned down only pertained to his waste clarifier, not the entire system. Joslin said this all falls under the old saying, trust but verify.
VanSchoyck asked whether Atkinson realized that his own study he did on Lake Mason years ago came to the conclusion that the main problem with the lake was excessive nutrients? And why would he now want to add to thje nutrients going into Lake Mason? Atkinson said that he was not adding to the nutrients, that he was actually adding something good to the lake because he was adding oxygen rich water. Atkinson said the DNR did not monitor the waste discharge for fish farms less than 20,000 lbs of fish per year because there really was non below those levels. Joslin said that common sense would lead one to believe that there would be half the waste at 10,000 lbs as there would be at 20,000 lbs, but not zero waste.
VanSchoyck said that his fish tank at The Cove restaurant was about half the size of Atkinson's waste clarifier, and based on how much it takes to keep it clean and how much waste his few fish generate, and considering the water would be flowing through at 65 gallons per minute, he didn't see how the clarifier could even begin to catch all the waste. Atkinson said that there were baffles to catch the waste and that the clarifier was designed using the latest design and best practices available.
Byers said he had a single goldfish at home that generated a spoonful of waste each week and how would that translate to 10,000 lbs of fish? Atkinson said that cold water trout make less waste per lb than warm water fish.
Byers asked whether the fish farm could even function without establishing a series of other fish farms to sell fingerlings to? Atkinson said yes, he could sell the fish to anybody, it didn't have to be to other local fish farms. His operation is meant to be a prototype for other fish farms however, and he hopes to be able to supply 5 or 6 other fish farms with fingerlings, although they don't necessarily have to be in the immediate area. Joslin said that approving this conditional use request might not only establish a precedent for conducting livestock operations on small lots, but also for establishing a series of fish farms, potentially in the immediate area, all using large amounts of groundwater and all discharging waste into Lake Mason.
Krause asked why 65 gallons per minute was needed for his operation, as opposed to 30 gallons per minute for the fish farms he would be supplying fingerlings to, because he had been told by a fish farm manager out west that much lower levels of water were required if the water was oxygenated properly? Atkinson said he needed more water because he was both hatching eggs and raising fish to adult size. The fish farms that bought fingerlings from him did not need to hatch eggs and could function on only 30 gallons per minute.
VanSchoyck asked how close the discharge pipe came to Pat Coons house and whether riff-raff was needed where the water shot out of the pipe? Pat Coon said it was 250 feet or so from the house. Atkinson said there was already riff-raff where the pipe would end.
VanSchoyck asked whether the fish farm would be insured for damage to the road or to Lake Mason? Atkinson said he would have to have insurance. Mike Julson said the Town would be able to recover any damages to the road.
Joslin said Atkinson chose this location because of abundant, cold groundwater, but the people in this area are also very touchy about extracting their groundwater and polluting their surface water. The fish farm would be taking water from a groundwater protection zone at near high capacity well levels, 7 days a week, and discharging waste into an impaired lake 7 days a week, and proposes to add more locations.
Joslin stated that he thought it best for a roll call vote on each of the three items, with a motion and second for each item, one way or the other. Byers made a motion to leave the boring under Town road up to the Town Board. Joslin explained that it was already up to the Town Board and we were only advising them. Beyers withdrew his motion.
Joslin made a motion to not recommend approval of the special exception permit request that was tabled last month, second by Byers. Hand vote, Joslin, Krause, Byers, VanSchoyck yes, Coon no. Motion passed 4-1.
Motion by Joslin to not recommend approval the conditional use permit, second by Krause. Hand vote, Joslin, Krause, Byers, VanSchoyck yes, Coon no. Motion carried 4-1.
Motion by Krause to not recommend approval to bore under a Town road, second by VanSchoyck. Hand vote, Joslin, Krause, Beyers, VanSchoyck yes, Coon no. Motion carried 4-1.
Discussion on disposal of fly ash in the area. Krause stated that some of it was toxic and some was ok for various uses. Also that there was an involved procedure to get a landfill permit. Van Schoyck said there was a difference between fly ash and bottom ash. It was agreed to keep our ears open on this topic and try to learn more about it, to determine if any local regulation or action was a good idea.
Motion by Byers to adjorn, second by Van Schoyck, M/C.
