PC minutes 12-9-13
New Haven Plan Commission Meeting Minutes
Monday December 9, 2013
Meeting was brought to order at 6:30 by Chair Pete Joslin. In attendance were Joslin, Krause, Byers, Coon and Donner for the Plan Commission. Also attending were Rand Atkinson, Jim Larson, Bob Demmert, Dave Lulling, Lenny Watson and Brad Luger.
Pledge of Allegiance was recited. Joslin said that the meeting had been posted properly. Minutes from the November 9, 2013 meeting were read. Motion by Krause to approve minutes, second by Coon, M/C.
Request by Jim Larson to rezone 3.5 acres from a 40 acre parcel at 3681 1st Lane from A1-35 to R1-LL, in order to separate the house from the farmland and sell the farmland.
Mr Larson explained he wanted to sell as much as the good farmland as he could and only needed to retain 3.5 acres around the house and buildings. He said that the 40 acre parcel had a 1 acre 33 foot wide strip all along the north edge, that his family had to buy a hundred years ago because a building was built over the property line. Adams County P & Z told him the 1 acre strip should have been combined with the 40 and that would be done if this land division goes through. Krause asked if the rezone and land division was supported by our Comp. Plan. Joslin said yes and that there were no red flags for the Land Div. Ordinance either. Motion by Krause to recommend approval of the rezone, second by Coon, M/C.
Request by Rand Atkinson for a special exception permit from the Adams County Shoreland Protection Ordinance to conduct an aquaculture/fish hatchery operation at 4002 3rd Avenue, and to bore under a Town road for a 4 inch diameter plastic discharge pipe, which would discharge up to 70 gallons per minute into Big Spring Creek from the aquaculture operation.
Chair Joslin explained that he wanted to first let Mr Atkinson give an uninterrupted summary of his trout farm proposal, then do the review in three segments, first concentrating on the water going into the project, then the project, and last the discharge coming out of the project.
Mr. Atkinson gave a summary of his background in biology, fish farm management, and with the DNR. He did the lake study for Lake Mason many years ago and managed the largest fish hatchery in Wisc. He explained that he wanted his trout farm to be a prototype or an example for what could be done at any number of small, unused farm properties where there might be an unused silo.
He indicated that he wanted to drill a well that would supply water at a total of 65 gallons per minute, that flow being split between various tanks in the system, including the silo tank which is where the largest size fish would be. The process would start with trout eggs brought in to be hatched, they would be raised until they got up to about 11 inches, then sold live. He wants to sell them in bulk and also to anyone who might want some to take home and eat.
Atkinson said that the water availability and temperature in this area were both conducive to a trout raising operation. He said he intends to have a waste clarifier with fish barrier screens, to allow the solids such as fish waste and uneaten feed settle to the bottom to be cleaned out periodically, and used as fertilizer for native plants he intends to grow on the 1.8 acres and also sell.
Atkinson said he intends to run the well at 65 gallons per minute, 24 hours per day, 365 days a year. He indicated he was exempt from the requirement for a DNR wastewater discharge permit because his total output would be approx. 10,000 lbs of fish per year and the permit is required for 20,000 lbs and up. He said he was not required to apply for a DNR high capacity well permit because his well would run at 65 gallons per minute and the requirement for a permit was 70 gallons per minute and up. Atkinson said that he had made a mistake when he wrote 70 gallons per minute on his application to New Haven and Adams County.
Chair Joslin asked whether a well had already been put in, Atkinson said no. Joslin asked if there were other wells on the property, Atkinson said yes, one for the house and one in the barn. Joslin asked if he knew the capacities of those wells, answer no.
Joslin stated that he had contacted the DNR on high capacity wells and was told the aggregate capacity of all wells on the property was used to determine whether a high capacity well permit was required, and 70 gallons per minute triggered the requirement. Joslin said that since Atkinson's application states 70 gallons per minute and the other wells had to be added, Atkinson should be required to get a high capacity well permit, and that also, because of Wisc Act 310, which was passed partly because of the Perrier high capacity well controversy, the DNR was required to do an environmental review. Atkinson said that he made a mistake by indicating 70 gallons per minute on his application to New Haven and Adams County, and the correct number was 65 gallons per minute. He said that his house well was probably quite low capacity based on how it supplied his shower.
Joslin stated that it was his opinion, in light of the unanswered question of whether Atkinson needed a high capacity well permit, that we should table the entire matter until either iron-clad proof was furnished that the permit was not required, or the permit was applied for and obtained. Joslin said that he didn't believe we should go forward without that being resolved first.
Donner asked Atkinson to clarify how much water was used for what and how often it would be used. Atkinson said that the flow to the silo only required 30 gallons per minute and the rest of the capacity was used for other tanks and the waste clarifier tank.
Krause said that he was concerned that that amount of water withdrawal would do harm to the aquifer, and that the water would leave our area for good, going into Lake Mason and on to the Fox River system. He was also concerned about the effect on local wells. Dave Lulling said that he had a well drilled recently and he was concerned that a large groundwater withdrawal in his area might require him to drill deeper and incur more expense.
Byers asked what was going to prevent non-solid waste from the discharge going into Lake Mason. Byers mentioned phosphorus, nitrogen, cleaning chemicals, diseases, bacteria, viruses, antibiotics, hormones and medications. Atkinson said he was going to operate a bio-safe facility and operate using current best practices, and none of those would be a concern. Bob Demmert saaid the Lake Mason people were tired of everyone using the lake as a toilet, and that confining and feeding fish in this way would produce disease and bacteria which would go in to the lake, which was already in sad shape. Atkinson said the only bacteria in the discharge would be good bacteria, and because fish were cold blooded there wouldn't be any harmful bacteria created.
Krause asked how he was going to keep the silo tank from freezing in cold weather, Atkinson said the water movement would prevent it. Krause said he did not believe it would, based on his experience with concrete.
Bob Deming asked why Atkinson had turned down the DNR request to do a courtesy review of the waste clarifier system. Donner also asked the same question and asked Atkinson to read aloud the email between himself and then DNR regarding the courtesy review. Atkinson read the email, which in summary, said that he thanked them for their offer but that he had already designed his system the best way possible, using current best practices, and he didn't need a review.
Bob Deming said that what really concerned him and others was the way Atkinson seemed to be attempting to avoid any type of oversight every step of the way. Joslin said that the Town of New Haven doesn't have the expertise to evaluate projects like this and that any review or oversight from the DNR or anywhere else would be welcome. Joslin said that that is why he believes Atkinson should apply for a high capacity well permit and go through the DNR review, and also why he should have accepted the DNR offer of a courtesy review.
Atkinson said that by law he in not required to even have a waste settlement tank and he could just discharge everything right into Big Spring Creek, but he chose not to do that.
Coon asked, if Atkinson had the review done and obtained the high capacity well permit, would that be all he had to do? Joslin said doing those steps would not mean the project would be approved, Atkinson would still have to convince the Town and the County, based on all the different factors, including the question of the discharge waste into Lake Mason.
Krause said he was concerned that 3.65 million gallons per year going into Lake Mason would have other effects besides the waste, including what effect it would have on the ice cover during the winter.
Donner asked whether we should proceed with tabling the matter or consider adding conditions to any approval. Joslin said he thought tabling the matter would be best because the well question should be resolved first, and anything else would be putting the cart before the horse.
Byers moved to table the matter until Atkinson could either provide proof that he was not required to obtain a high capacity well permit, or obtain the permit, and also that the Plan Commission would submit a list of written questions related to the fish farm operation and its discharge waste to Mr. Atkinson. Motion seconded by Krause. Roll call vote, Joslin, Krause, Byers, Donner aye. Coon nay. Motion passed 4-1.
Krause moved to adjorn, second by Byers, M/C. Meeting adjorned.
Monday December 9, 2013
Meeting was brought to order at 6:30 by Chair Pete Joslin. In attendance were Joslin, Krause, Byers, Coon and Donner for the Plan Commission. Also attending were Rand Atkinson, Jim Larson, Bob Demmert, Dave Lulling, Lenny Watson and Brad Luger.
Pledge of Allegiance was recited. Joslin said that the meeting had been posted properly. Minutes from the November 9, 2013 meeting were read. Motion by Krause to approve minutes, second by Coon, M/C.
Request by Jim Larson to rezone 3.5 acres from a 40 acre parcel at 3681 1st Lane from A1-35 to R1-LL, in order to separate the house from the farmland and sell the farmland.
Mr Larson explained he wanted to sell as much as the good farmland as he could and only needed to retain 3.5 acres around the house and buildings. He said that the 40 acre parcel had a 1 acre 33 foot wide strip all along the north edge, that his family had to buy a hundred years ago because a building was built over the property line. Adams County P & Z told him the 1 acre strip should have been combined with the 40 and that would be done if this land division goes through. Krause asked if the rezone and land division was supported by our Comp. Plan. Joslin said yes and that there were no red flags for the Land Div. Ordinance either. Motion by Krause to recommend approval of the rezone, second by Coon, M/C.
Request by Rand Atkinson for a special exception permit from the Adams County Shoreland Protection Ordinance to conduct an aquaculture/fish hatchery operation at 4002 3rd Avenue, and to bore under a Town road for a 4 inch diameter plastic discharge pipe, which would discharge up to 70 gallons per minute into Big Spring Creek from the aquaculture operation.
Chair Joslin explained that he wanted to first let Mr Atkinson give an uninterrupted summary of his trout farm proposal, then do the review in three segments, first concentrating on the water going into the project, then the project, and last the discharge coming out of the project.
Mr. Atkinson gave a summary of his background in biology, fish farm management, and with the DNR. He did the lake study for Lake Mason many years ago and managed the largest fish hatchery in Wisc. He explained that he wanted his trout farm to be a prototype or an example for what could be done at any number of small, unused farm properties where there might be an unused silo.
He indicated that he wanted to drill a well that would supply water at a total of 65 gallons per minute, that flow being split between various tanks in the system, including the silo tank which is where the largest size fish would be. The process would start with trout eggs brought in to be hatched, they would be raised until they got up to about 11 inches, then sold live. He wants to sell them in bulk and also to anyone who might want some to take home and eat.
Atkinson said that the water availability and temperature in this area were both conducive to a trout raising operation. He said he intends to have a waste clarifier with fish barrier screens, to allow the solids such as fish waste and uneaten feed settle to the bottom to be cleaned out periodically, and used as fertilizer for native plants he intends to grow on the 1.8 acres and also sell.
Atkinson said he intends to run the well at 65 gallons per minute, 24 hours per day, 365 days a year. He indicated he was exempt from the requirement for a DNR wastewater discharge permit because his total output would be approx. 10,000 lbs of fish per year and the permit is required for 20,000 lbs and up. He said he was not required to apply for a DNR high capacity well permit because his well would run at 65 gallons per minute and the requirement for a permit was 70 gallons per minute and up. Atkinson said that he had made a mistake when he wrote 70 gallons per minute on his application to New Haven and Adams County.
Chair Joslin asked whether a well had already been put in, Atkinson said no. Joslin asked if there were other wells on the property, Atkinson said yes, one for the house and one in the barn. Joslin asked if he knew the capacities of those wells, answer no.
Joslin stated that he had contacted the DNR on high capacity wells and was told the aggregate capacity of all wells on the property was used to determine whether a high capacity well permit was required, and 70 gallons per minute triggered the requirement. Joslin said that since Atkinson's application states 70 gallons per minute and the other wells had to be added, Atkinson should be required to get a high capacity well permit, and that also, because of Wisc Act 310, which was passed partly because of the Perrier high capacity well controversy, the DNR was required to do an environmental review. Atkinson said that he made a mistake by indicating 70 gallons per minute on his application to New Haven and Adams County, and the correct number was 65 gallons per minute. He said that his house well was probably quite low capacity based on how it supplied his shower.
Joslin stated that it was his opinion, in light of the unanswered question of whether Atkinson needed a high capacity well permit, that we should table the entire matter until either iron-clad proof was furnished that the permit was not required, or the permit was applied for and obtained. Joslin said that he didn't believe we should go forward without that being resolved first.
Donner asked Atkinson to clarify how much water was used for what and how often it would be used. Atkinson said that the flow to the silo only required 30 gallons per minute and the rest of the capacity was used for other tanks and the waste clarifier tank.
Krause said that he was concerned that that amount of water withdrawal would do harm to the aquifer, and that the water would leave our area for good, going into Lake Mason and on to the Fox River system. He was also concerned about the effect on local wells. Dave Lulling said that he had a well drilled recently and he was concerned that a large groundwater withdrawal in his area might require him to drill deeper and incur more expense.
Byers asked what was going to prevent non-solid waste from the discharge going into Lake Mason. Byers mentioned phosphorus, nitrogen, cleaning chemicals, diseases, bacteria, viruses, antibiotics, hormones and medications. Atkinson said he was going to operate a bio-safe facility and operate using current best practices, and none of those would be a concern. Bob Demmert saaid the Lake Mason people were tired of everyone using the lake as a toilet, and that confining and feeding fish in this way would produce disease and bacteria which would go in to the lake, which was already in sad shape. Atkinson said the only bacteria in the discharge would be good bacteria, and because fish were cold blooded there wouldn't be any harmful bacteria created.
Krause asked how he was going to keep the silo tank from freezing in cold weather, Atkinson said the water movement would prevent it. Krause said he did not believe it would, based on his experience with concrete.
Bob Deming asked why Atkinson had turned down the DNR request to do a courtesy review of the waste clarifier system. Donner also asked the same question and asked Atkinson to read aloud the email between himself and then DNR regarding the courtesy review. Atkinson read the email, which in summary, said that he thanked them for their offer but that he had already designed his system the best way possible, using current best practices, and he didn't need a review.
Bob Deming said that what really concerned him and others was the way Atkinson seemed to be attempting to avoid any type of oversight every step of the way. Joslin said that the Town of New Haven doesn't have the expertise to evaluate projects like this and that any review or oversight from the DNR or anywhere else would be welcome. Joslin said that that is why he believes Atkinson should apply for a high capacity well permit and go through the DNR review, and also why he should have accepted the DNR offer of a courtesy review.
Atkinson said that by law he in not required to even have a waste settlement tank and he could just discharge everything right into Big Spring Creek, but he chose not to do that.
Coon asked, if Atkinson had the review done and obtained the high capacity well permit, would that be all he had to do? Joslin said doing those steps would not mean the project would be approved, Atkinson would still have to convince the Town and the County, based on all the different factors, including the question of the discharge waste into Lake Mason.
Krause said he was concerned that 3.65 million gallons per year going into Lake Mason would have other effects besides the waste, including what effect it would have on the ice cover during the winter.
Donner asked whether we should proceed with tabling the matter or consider adding conditions to any approval. Joslin said he thought tabling the matter would be best because the well question should be resolved first, and anything else would be putting the cart before the horse.
Byers moved to table the matter until Atkinson could either provide proof that he was not required to obtain a high capacity well permit, or obtain the permit, and also that the Plan Commission would submit a list of written questions related to the fish farm operation and its discharge waste to Mr. Atkinson. Motion seconded by Krause. Roll call vote, Joslin, Krause, Byers, Donner aye. Coon nay. Motion passed 4-1.
Krause moved to adjorn, second by Byers, M/C. Meeting adjorned.